----------------------------------------------------- MAY 1978 ----------------------------------------------------- Source: Unknown European publication The Yes Man By Bill Stephen From the pub circuit, to the intensity in the session rooms, to the centre stage and the glitter of the rock star, Rick Wakeman has moved through the music world displaying an uncanny vision marked by a high degree of musicianship. Wakeman worked with the Strawbs, with Yes, conceptualized legends and scored films that became as memorable for their music as their story. His wizardry on the synthesizer and his ability on keyboards has brought him fame, controversy and a great deal of pleasure. He 'likes' playing his music. In the world where the rich rock star always seems to be "broke," Wakeman seems well in grasp of his future. Vice President of the Brentford Football Club, he is also part owner, along with Peter Frampton and other rock industry luminaries, of an American football club called the Philadelphia Furies. Displaying a keen business sense, he also developed Complex Seven, a group of seven companies designed to provide a complete service to the musician. Besides producing a new concept in keyboards, known as the Birotron, his company also builds flight cases and two development companies keep him busy with new creations.  In the studio, after a day's recording for the new Yes album due out about August, Wakeman played the joker recalling the songs of his pub days. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Question: In the studio you were playing "Spanish Eyes" and other numbers from your early days at the pub. Did you do a lot of work on that circuit? Answer: Yes. I've lost count of the number of pubs I've played in. I've played in the three-piece bands and four-piece bands -- played in big "paddy" bands and did the Rank circuit. I even had my own traditional jazz band for a time called "Brother Wakeman and the Clergymen." You get to the good nights with the bad. I've had beer cans thrown at me. I've been booed off and cheered off. It's called paying your dues -- doing your homework. It's an apprenticeship course really which is why when bands suddenly hit the big time from nowhere they don't know anything. It's like driving around in a Morris Minor and having someone come up you and say, "Tomorrow you're racing in the Grand Prix in Brazil." You can't do it. Question: Would you suggest the pub circuit for everybody? Answer: Yes. I really think it's good to get experience of all types of music rather than the experiences of all types of musicians playing. I don't agree with buying loads of albums and listening to everything under the sun because that makes you a parrot. I don't like parrot musicians because if they're good enough to be a mimic of somebody else, than they have the talent somewhere inside to do something of their own. Question: What are the advantages and disadvantages of having an early classical training such as you had when playing rock music? Answer: The major advantage is that it teaches you a technique which is useful inasmuch as one of the most frustrating things in the world is to want to do something but not be capable of doing it. So if you're asked to play something any you're not capable of it, it's very frustrating. Also, it gives you a discipline which is sadly lacking in a lot of rock music. The disadvantages are that you learn a lot of rules. And rock music breaks a lot of rules; all music breaks rules and it's very difficult. It's a bit like breaking the law. You begin to say, "Now I can't double a third of there and I can't do this here," and things like that. Another disadvantage is that, to a large extent, it destroys any form of imagination. For example, in the solo elements of rock and roll, you break every rule under the sun. There are no hard and fast rules. You just do what ever you like to get the sound you want. A lot of classical players, unless they start trying to improvise at a very early age, find it very difficult once they finish their training to improvise. You have to hear it. There are pros and cons to all things. I'm glad I did it because it's given me a technique to be able to do the things I want to do. Question: Do you believe that discipline leads to creative freedom? Answer: Yes. Very much so. I think in life as well, but I'm not very good at that. Question: What do you think of the standard of musicianship in rock music? Answer: It's very low. There are very, very talented musicians and there are also a lot that aren't so talented. You can normally tell from the sort of music people play. Unfortunately, a lot of musicians, whether they are good or bad, are going through the syndrome of being governed by what their audience wants rather than trying to offer something to them. Obviously, I don't mean to say you ignore them, but there has to be a certain amount of give and take. Question: What made you move from session work into rock and roll and the Strawbs? Answer: I was just getting cheesed off really with being in the studio. It was becoming like a 9 to 5 job -- actually it was more like 9 in the morning to 10 at night most nights. I was doing about three sessions a day and I was getting frustrated because sometimes I would go into the session and try to put an awful lot into the music apart from what you're reading and the difficulty came when some of the music didn't even belong in the studio. So I was bored stiff but still had to try and do my best. I was really getting fed up with it and wanted to contribute something on a longer term scale. Question: After playing with Yes, you quit to go solo. Now you're back in the studio within again. Didn't solo work suit you? Answer: It was great. I loved it. It suited me perfectly. You have to do what you feel. I never do what anybody tells me. I'm terrible. I've got a mind of my own. I just make a decision, take it and do it and as soon as I've exhausted that I go onto something else. I enjoy playing my music and each music I play.  If I didn't like it, I wouldn't play it. Question: What brought you back to Yes then? Answer: Purely music. The music that the band was rehearsing and looking towards for the "Going for the One" album really fascinated me and I thought, "This is really knockout!" It's no use playing with the band or doing anything if you can't offer it anything. Question: Is there something special about Yes that you feel you can't get anywhere else? Answer: There's a certain rapport and thinking. It's very much like a family. I honestly don't know what it is. There is sort of -- and I don't mean anything weird -- telepathy between the five of us. Don't ask me why, but there is. There's a good deal of understanding and there's a good deal of musicianship in the band. Question: What brought about the storybook-like conceptualizations that mixed your solo career? Answer: Basically because I couldn't sing. At the time -- going back to the time of the "Henry the Eighth" album -- there wasn't any such things as concept albums or keyboard albums as such. So it had to make sense to me and, hopefully, to the people that were listening to it. I was just finding it difficult to write with no words and then I just started getting a hold of ideas and started writing for the ideas. It was like a film score without the visuals. Question: You created the English Rock Ensemble when you wanted to do small gigs. What happened to it? Answer: I wanted a band that I could take around England and into a cinema in Cardiff and the other small halls that you can't do with a 95 piece orchestra, to 60 piece choir, 37 skaters and an army. I thoroughly enjoyed the Ensemble. We toured Japan, America twice and did a big tour of England. But you can only take things so far and it was as far as it could go. Question: How far do you think Yes can go? Answer: Well, you're talking about two different things: physical and emotional. Physically I don't think we can go more than two or three more years. We did a 40-gig tour of America that nearly killed us. We'll probably be doing small tours with more emphasis on studio work. Emotionally, creatively, we've got a long way to go. Question: How do you decide what to do next in music? Answer: It's always what my first thought is. I say "Right, I'll do a film." And I'll go out and do it. I enjoy working. Sometimes it gets me down. I get really knackered and I think, "God, I've got to get a week off."  Question: You are doing more films now, how do you decide which to take on? Answer: I get sent about six scripts a month. Their nearly all good but what I have to look at is whether I can do anything for the film -- can I offer something to it or will I just be mucking around. If I see it's really good, I start hearing things immediately. Question: Do you sense it when it's good? Answer: Oh, yeah. You can smell it. If the script is good you read a situation and you start hearing with sound track. And that's the only way to do it. Otherwise I call up, thank them explaining that I can't off for it anything and it would be better if they found someone that could. Question: For "White Rock," the Olympic film, you received wide critical acclaim. How did you approach writing it? Answer: I just watched the film and sat down with a director and the editor and worked out the music sections and the timing. Then I went away. It's hard to say. I'm not trying to sound egotistical, but all the albums I've done on my own has been like doing a film. I find it much easier to work if I have something to work at. If somebody just asks me to write a piece of music, it's really difficult. If somebody says write about that -- a particular thing -- then I could do it. I can deal with visuals much better then I can someone says write "a" song; I can't write "a" song. Question: How did you achieve some of the amazing effects on White Rock? Answer: All the sound effects were done on a mini-Moog. Question: Did they come through experimentation? Answer: No. I know how to get them. That's the one piece of Moog I know inside out and backwards. It's a lovely machine. Question: Can you tell me about the new Moog Syn Amp that year currently using the studio? Answer: Well, I've been using a 16-channel mixer going into a couple of 100-watt amps and then I had the cabinets which I built myself with an 18" and two horns. They were coming to the end of their days and always going to get them replaced. And then Val Josef of Moog asked if I wanted to try their cabinet. Now I'm wary of companies' amps and cabinets because they are always a compromise. But I said I'd have a go. I played the Polymoog through it and I couldn't believe it. It was incredible. The parametric equalizer is superb. You can literally make what sounds you want, how you want, which is really very important are Polymoog because it has such a high frequency range all around the instrument. So I thought, great. It's a bloody great cabinet to just have around for the Polymoog so I started trying all the other instruments through it. I have a Moog graphic equalizer and a few other gadgets around. And every instrument I was going through I was getting more and more knocked out. Question: What else is standard Wakeman equipment on stage? Answer: Well, I own about 45 different keyboards. What I do is after we've finished an album and we decide on the set we are going to play on stage, I list all the instruments on that album and all that we used in the numbers are going to play. Then I whittle it down to as little as possible. There were 17 keyboards used in the last tour. Question: You own part of an American football club now? Answer: Yes. I own part of the Philadelphia Furies along with Peter Frampton and other people from the rock industry -- mostly managers. Question: Is this part of the new diversified rock star? Answer: No. I love it. I'm the Vice President of the Brentford Football Club. I have been supporting them for 22 years. There the greatest thing since Kellogg's cornflakes. Question: What's happening with Complex Seven and the Birotron? Answer: Complex Seven is going a storm. It looks like we're going to have to get another factory together because we can't produce enough of what we're turning out. The case company is doing phenomenal business. We also have two development companies which are developing stuff faster than I can either sell it or put it out. On the Birotron, I've lost count of the orders. I'm very pleased because we started out wanting to do a service for the musician and hopefully it succeeded. The great thing is that all the money we've profited over the last couple of years has been ploughed right back into the company to produce a better product. Question: Do you get as big a thrill out of your businesses as you do out of your music? Answer: I get a thrill out of life. But, for example, when a band comes down to the factory and say, "We bought a couple of your flight cases for a tour and we really thought they were great and they want to order some more," I think that is really good and get a great buzz from it. Question: Some people have said that you can't make money touring in England? Answer: Bullshit. If a successful band ever said that, the first thing I would do is order an audit of their account. Have a good look at their accountant, a good look at what their manager is doing, what car he's driving and what car they are driving. Question: Well you didn't make money on your "Journey" tour, for instance? Answer: Well, that was in America. I must have been crazy. It was great fun but you don't take 115 pieces around on a bloody great tour of America. You don't do it. You take a small band around and you make money. But it's what you do with your money that counts. Close Window YesInThePress.com For site comments, problems, corrections, or additions, contact YesinthePress@aol.com